Down Swing Black Out
 

Hello All :D


I was wondering if any one has any suggestion on how to take a swing to the course. :twisted: I read TGM when I have free time. I also watch my videos of my swing that I took with my AI. I practice my swing with my impact bag. I am also educating my hands by swing with each arm separtedly and I LOOK! LOOK! LOOK! at my wrist position's When I am at the range. ( FLat left wrist/bend right wrist) I can hit some awesome shots. I make sure that I am in balance and bringing the hole club to the ball.

My problem is when I take it to the course I lose my rhytem. I get to fast and I think I really have too smack it. Which, I know is not correct. I really hit some poor shots, shot that I know won't hit the fairway or the attend target. DOWN SWING BLACKOUT!

I went to the range this afternoon and worked on light grip preasure. So, I could feel , The loading of the sweet spot against PP # 3 and sustaining it. Work pretty good at the end of my session.

Any Suggestion ?

Thanks

Ball Turf

To cure downswing black-out, visualize the path of the clubhead through and beyond impact per 8-0 #3.

Also per 5-0, Monitor all three elements of the club (1-L) by way of the hands-stop monitoring the clubface instead of your hands.

Lastly check your balance. When you loose your balance, no matter what you are working on, your central nervous system will over-ride it as a defense mechanism to protect you from getting hurt.

Drewitgolf

Thanks for the reply.

I am going to try this drill that Billy Mckinney uses for balance. He is using a 2X4 cut to about 2 ft you lay the thin side on the ground and stand on the top thin side. Start practicing your prodcedure's and you do it till you can stay balance on the miniture beam. Suppose to get you in tone with the Earth. Ben Doyle also use this method except with a plastic milk create. I'll practice this this week-end.

:D

Ball Turf

"The Jupiter Effect" :)

Re: Down Swing Black Out
 

[quote="Ball Turf"]Hello All :D


I was wondering if any one has any suggestion on how to take a swing to the course. :twisted: I read TGM when I have free time. I also watch my videos of my swing that I took with my AI. I practice my swing with my impact bag. I am also educating my hands by swing with each arm separtedly and I LOOK! LOOK! LOOK! at my wrist position's When I am at the range. ( FLat left wrist/bend right wrist) I can hit some awesome shots. I make sure that I am in balance and bringing the hole club to the ball.

My problem is when I take it to the course I lose my rhytem. I get to fast and I think I really have too smack it. Which, I know is not correct. I really hit some poor shots, shot that I know won't hit the fairway or the attend target. DOWN SWING BLACKOUT!

I went to the range this afternoon and worked on light grip preasure. So, I could feel , The loading of the sweet spot against PP # 3 and sustaining it. Work pretty good at the end of my session.

Ball,

You've correctly identified your problem, loss of RHYTHM, but possibly you do not really understand its meaning. Rhythm has nothing to do with pace or tempo, but instead everything to do with the RPM's of the left arm and the club (keeping them in-line) with consideration to the intended hinge action. Remember, each hinge action has its respective travel time and distance and has to be entered into your computer prior to start up.

EC

Re: Down Swing Black Out
 

Yoda came up with this gem on my trip to the Swamp.

Keep doing your impact work as suggested by Yoda. Put the bag at follow through and smack it monitoring your alignments. He's posted some excellent drills with the bag. Keep doing them.

When you go to the course, just be aware of the ball. BUT in your mellon, picture that impact bag out there at follow through. Don't get to concerned with the ball, just blast the "pretend" bag with your selected hinge action. Let the motion make the shot. This will keep you from QUITTING. Remember through the ball to both arms straight. Impact does not achieve the rank of a STATION.

I have some Blackout issues too, but this seems to help.

NO...No...No...Not once in this whole discussion have I heard the word
TARGET. Y'all range bound, ball bound. When you are on the course you have to be TARGET bound. You can't be a swing mechanic while on the course shooting for score. You have to learn it, ingrain it , before you bring it.

Divide your range work in half. The first half you work on mechanics, positions, acquired motions. LOOK, LOOK, LOOK FEEL, FEEL, FEEL. The other half pretend your on the course. Make bets aganst yourself. How many times can I hit this target green in a row. I have 10 balls left, lets see how many I can land in an imaginary fairway. Challenge yourself.

Prepare.. Prepare.. Prepare.

I think Ben Hogan once said, "If you didn't bring it with you, you aint going to find it out here."

I imagine playing on the course while practicing at the range, and vice versa.

I think the "downstroke blackout" is a lack of focus. When we lose focus we lose the preparation and we lose our rythem.

When this happens i imagine a drill i do at the range, but on the course:

When i am really working on my accuracy and ball striking i put two clubs down on either side of the ball and leave very little room, think 1". This drill has done wonders for my ballstriking and can create quite a crowd around you too when you are striking them well.

Anyway, imagine those two clubs on either side of your ball when you're on the course, PICTURE THEM THERE.

Focus.

Then hit them.

We have Impact
 

Whack the daylights out of the impact bag. If you black out doing that then the problem is acute. LOL.

The ball does have an over powering effect on the golf stroke. The hands stop thinking and the brains begin to mortify at the thought of hitting the ball poorly.

I always thought an impact bag could cause stoppage but in fact it trains a powerful pivot, as well as a wonderful place to unload the power accumulators. Follow Lynn’s impact bag procedures and smack it hard.


6b

Another approach, focus completely on taking a divot. Forget the ball, your ONLY objective should be taking a good divot, and letting the ball get in the way.

Down, down, down - to both arms straight.

Maybe we should make sure we are all on the same page.

Downstroke Blackout - as I understand it - is the loss of clubhead feel, which in turn, results in every abnormality of the golf stroke imaginable and then some - but in particulary, loss of a sense of where the clubhead is.

What you should be concentrating on is gaining clubhead feel. Now, whether it is via a specific pressure point or just an overall sense in your hands is up to you. Feeling the sweetspot is feeling the clubhead. When you throw a ball, you are throwing the center of gravity - the same applies with golf.

Shorten the stroke, slow the stroke or delay the release until you can feel positive clubhead lag pressure. See 3-F-6 for more. And of course, always outward, downward, downward, downward, and forward.

Just a few thoughts.

Patrick

On the same page!?
 

Perhaps this is my first post trying to bridge the gap between conventional golf instruction and TGM. I could write a 600 page book relating my experiences while receiving instruction from Golf Pros not versed in TGM. I won't, too boring, but may write a chronological history covering almost 50 years of searching for the Secret by seeking out numerous teachers and trying to dig it out of the dirt. Typical, I suspect, for almost all, 95% or more, of golfers trying to develop a good , repeating swing. (getting it from the range to the course!)

Nothing that follows is meant to be critical nor is anything directed at any particular poster in the thread. I just find, the more I read in this thread, the more I become confused.

Patrick has almost helped the thread make some sense, "on the same page" but I still don't think the original poster has operationally defined his problem, resulting in replies all over the spectrum, guessing, providing answers that may in fact be perfect for another problem, reminds me of the GD Forum which, thank goodness, I no longer visit.

That being said I will offer my solution to the undefined problem! I think I detect two clues in the original post that may offer a solution, or at least clear some fog re. exactly what is the problem, "fast' and "PP # 3".

My understanding of PP #3, it's use, etc., is, no matter how you place your right hand on the club, you will have a point someplace that becomes PP #3, PP #3 is passive, PP #3 is to be monitored not used to minipulate anything. Everyone has a PP #3, even if not aware of it.

I would think if anyone over concentrated on PP#3 it might cause a loss of PP#1? The reason for the "fast?" Perhaps the original poster should remove a little concentration from PP #3 to PP #1? Monitor PP #1?

Or, as in my case over the years, I am a swinger, always have been, never understood before exposure to TGM, my swing went to hexx when I tried to be a hitter w/o knowing how to be a hitter.

Or, the same thing happened when I, for some unknown reason, used "pivot controlled hands" instead of my normal "hands controlled pivot."

Always called this"puffing up in the backswing" = trying to get more shoulder turn by consciously turning shoulders.

Guess I'll spend the rest of the day trying to figure out why I made this post!

Wally-- you posted because you care. A good reason to post, and a good post.

Thanks for all that reply to this post! :D

Here's some information, I found in the book regarding the Down Swing

Black Out. In the Sixth Edition it explains why the Black Out Happens.

LOOK ! LOOk ! LOOK! at page 50 (3-F-5). Its because I am not focusing

on three thing.

1. The Practice Stroke

2. The Waggle--- Adress and Start Down

3. The Foward Press

I will work on these thing and will update the forurm later.


Ball Turf

Alot of text book answers.

I have found and fight two small things. One which can be cured with 3-F-5. The other and I will call it rhythm and tempo is lost, both, no confusion here. It is all related to Tension. Tension first in the upper arms (primarily the right) and that for some unexplain reason leads to the pivot going to heck in a hand basket, tempo increases and the results, well at times I know if I would have used a putter I would have had a better result.

Don't know if you are experiencing the same. It took me a while to identify the tension problem, the tempo was easy to note as different and the loss of rhythm show itself as well.

I havent beat it but I do on occasion manage to overcome it. Focusing on 3-F-5, is where I am at as well as shaking the arms at times to ensure I don't try and tighten up.

Someone had suggest I go back to humming an old tune in my head to try and stay even.

This may or may not help you.

Martee


What I am working on is 3-F-5 as I am going thru this section. I will be monitoring supple Ankles, Knees,Hips,shoulders and Neck to get away from the tension. Think they are attached with a piece of rope. Its alot, but I think with time and alot of practice. It might come together This means sacrafice the shot and put in the work!

Ball Turf :)

Re: Down Swing Black Out
 

Must check out http://www.clearkeygolf.com

Remember, your game will only be as good as your habits.

If you think your game isn't reflecting your ability shown on the practice ground, then I think the above link will really help.

But if you haven't got 'it' in the first place, it wouldn't help too much.

Thinking about what you're trying to do doesn't work because your mind is quicker than your body.

In reading through this thread, I would agree that Patrick came the closest to the root cause of DSBO....clubhead awareness. There was also a comment, I think from 6b, about the natural defense mechanism of the body.

All the suggestions for the cures of DSBO are perfect but I think they will work better with a more solid definition of the problem.

I'm seeing DSBO as a natural reaction of the body's defense mechanism when the clubhead is coming toward you, even in the slightest amount, during the swing. The eyes blink and the head moves away from that force. A natural reaction.

There is also the desire to move the club forward too soon and this causes the balance problem. Because, at some point we realise that we have to stop to let the clubhead catch up or redirected. When that happens it feels like it is a tempo problem because of the out of alignment and the feeling that everything is out of control. Again, the body then responds defensively by trying to get out of the way of that force.

I'd say then that the above suggestions will help keep the clubhead away from your head during the crucial moments of the "down/out to low point" concept. The rock at the end of a string kinda thing.

Downstroke blackout = Losing awareness of all that is involved in clearing the right hip (clear as in slide or move out of the way to avoid right hip/elbow interference).

Like almost all involved in golf, you can do a better job of promoting hip clearance on the range than you can when actually playing. During practice, you don't feel as much desire to steer the ball to the hole, or to over-accelerate. I'd say certainly know this when you play.

Maintain clubhead feel until after impact (A lot easier said than done, when you feel you must make the ball go X yards). That's almost a sure bet that your body will have done what is necessary to avoid right hip/elbow interference, as if the interference occurred, throw away would have resulted, which, in turn, would have made you lose clubhead feel.

Also, let the brain know how you'd like the body to respond to the hands per 8-1 and by practicing downstroke waggles.