After talking to my pal Bucket on the phone today, I thought this would be a great thread to get involved in. Along with beer and wings, Bucket and I have alot in common. I am 37 and truely believe I can be a scratch golfer, I love the machine and know it is the path to playing great golf. I was an 9 handicap for about 14 years, then I went to the Falcons Fire Academy and began the decent. I currently carry a 6.5 index and progression has slowed. I need a plan to get my game to the next level. The geometry and physics of my swing are more sound than ever, but how do you get out of your own way? I practice like a scratch golfer, my driving range game is tight, but I am not the same person on the course. How do good players take their range game to the course, Why does my rhythm and tempo change once I get on the first tee, Is there a secret to scoring, not just ball striking???
Looking forward to devulging into the answers to these questions and more.
After talking to my pal Bucket on the phone today, I thought this would be a great thread to get involved in. Along with beer and wings, Bucket and I have alot in common. I am 37 and truely believe I can be a scratch golfer, I love the machine and know it is the path to playing great golf. I was an 9 handicap for about 14 years, then I went to the Falcons Fire Academy and began the decent. I currently carry a 6.5 index and progression has slowed. I need a plan to get my game to the next level. The geometry and physics of my swing are more sound than ever, but how do you get out of your own way? I practice like a scratch golfer, my driving range game is tight, but I am not the same person on the course. How do good players take their range game to the course, Why does my rhythm and tempo change once I get on the first tee, Is there a secret to scoring, not just ball striking???
Looking forward to devulging into the answers to these questions and more.
8cork,
Sounds like you have a good base to work from. Much like a person training for a marathon would need a base of mileage before ramping up the effort.
I need some definition.
"I practice like a scratch golfer" Describe
"I am not the same person on the course" Who are you in each setting?
There are many secrets to scoring. This forum is designed to expose some of these. Your ballstriking will define your range of possible scores. Your management and short game will define your score.
Sounds like you have a good base to work from. Much like a person training for a marathon would need a base of mileage before ramping up the effort.
I need some definition.
"I practice like a scratch golfer" Describe
"I am not the same person on the course" Who are you in each setting?
There are many secrets to scoring. This forum is designed to expose some of these. Your ballstriking will define your range of possible scores. Your management and short game will define your score.
HB
Thanks HB,
What I think I am trying to say is that, My swing on the range is much better than the swing I take to the course. If my handicap was based on the way I hit the ball on the range I might be a 2 or 3. For some reason my ball striking drops off once I start playing. My putting is the strongest part of my game, I almost always make alot of putts, sadly they are rarely for birdie. I play spurts of great golf, but I can never keep it going. Usually not even for nine holes. Just the other day I was 5 under after 7 holes and barely broke 80 for the round.
Thanks HB,
What I think I am trying to say is that, My swing on the range is much better than the swing I take to the course. If my handicap was based on the way I hit the ball on the range I might be a 2 or 3. For some reason my ball striking drops off once I start playing. My putting is the strongest part of my game, I almost always make alot of putts, sadly they are rarely for birdie. I play spurts of great golf, but I can never keep it going. Usually not even for nine holes. Just the other day I was 5 under after 7 holes and barely broke 80 for the round.
8cork,
Thanks for getting involved with this. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, regardless of how it might sound (Bucket, on the other hand, may get some grief). You did not answer my questions, but you did shed some light. I'll comment on your post and ask the questions again.
Except for the "Gamer," everyone hits it better on the range. Do you hit it better on range because you hit the same club over and over at the same target? Do you make little adjustments between shots to improve result? Do you feel more relaxed because you can just drag another one over? Are you more comfortable because you know where it will land? Better because you aren't keeping score? I'm not making assessments or recommendations yet, I need more info. Describe your practice routine.
As for spurts of great golf. Excellent, it shows you have the ability. Take heart. Top level golf is allowing those streaks to happen and managing the rest of the round for the lowest score. What causes these runs to stop? Do you keep score in your head or notice your relationship to par while you play? Do you hit a bad shot and try to figure out the cause instead of wiping it from memory? Do you get nervous / excited when you get it going? Do you start thinking about telling your buddies about your great round?
Do you get overconfident and try shots beyond your ability or aim at pins you should not. Do you fail to get up and down from a relatively easy spot? Again, I'm not saying you should or should not do any of these things. I'm merely describing some things people do to interrupt great scoring rounds. When you say you act different on the range and the course, is that more a description of the results or the process?
We need to find out what makes you miss from short range.
I don't think I ever trust that my line is right. It could be a vision thing. I wear glasses and have a pretty bad stigmatism (sp?). Not sure
Do you change putters? What style of putter?
I used to change putters like I change my drawz . . . every other week. I was into Camerons loved 'em. I'm over it. I've had the same putter now for about 2 years. It's Cameron MidSur (belly putter) but it has been cut down to 34 inches. I like it because it's dope looking and I don't have to put one of them stoopid headcovers on it. Plus I like it because it's heavy and has a thick top line (opposite of my iron preference).
Did you ever putt alot better and changed trying to improve?
Naw. I never practice putting too much. I think it's boring. Waiting to be chastized here . . .
Miss everywhere or left or right, short or long.
Pretty much everywhere. If I start out missing right or left then I usually end up missing long because I start trying to cram it in. But from a distance perspective on on the short ones I'd say I tend to hit them too soft. I like to see it die in.
Mental side. Are you severly damaged? I mean -- is it so bad you can't even picture a putt go in during visualization.
Damaged . . . oh hell yes . . . To be honest I don't really visualize that well period in putting or nowhere . . . well I do pretty good in the bathroom
How many putts a round do you try to wish in?
On a bad day . . . every putt from 6 to 3 feet.
On a six footer that reads just outside left edge, what are you thinking. Do you get really committed.
Depends on where I'm at in the round . . . early on I'm positive . . . around the turn I'm thinking I hope that big fat lady made the hot dawg slaw and if she did I may marry her. . . . by the time I'm around 14 and I've missed a few I'm just trying not to cry.
Are you standing over the putt wondering about your alignment? Or is it after you have missed. Not early on. But if I miss I'm wondering after the shot for awhile. Then I'm tweekin' from the get before the putter goes back.
Describe in detail your preshot.
Well . . . I kinda start looking at the green as I walk to it from the fairway (I like to walk). The after I catch my breath . . . Start looking for the high spot. I walk to it. I kinda verify what my eye see with what I feel under my feet. The I get to the ball look at my high spot and kinda let my instincts take over as far as aiming. I have found when I'm hot I just feel my alignment by just letting my braincell do it's thang. Then I take two practice strokes looking at the hole trying to feel the putter swing and feel my hands. I address the ball. Look at my spot and just try to swing him back schmooove. People have said that my stroke looks good. Hell it feels good and feels like it would look good. It just don't work too good.
Ah . . . but I AM a good putter and I'm due to make the next 'un.
Bucket,
We've got potential. I like the reading and routine. Esp. smooth stroke and letting the braincell do the aiming. I like letting the talent do its part rather than manual override.
Good putters putt with the same putter or style of putter. Once asked a really good tour putter how long he had been putting with his putter (within earshot of my player who was wanting to change). He said, "About five years." Then I asked what he putted with before that. He said, "One just like it."
I'm not a big believer in spending alot of time on the putting green unless you really like putting. I see a tendency to experiment, further confusing the computer. I want results in a short amount of time. I rarely putt for more than ten minutes. Love short game and full game practice.
A drill from a really good putter. Three balls in a line about two feet apart, starting two feet from hole. So a two footer, a four footer, and a six footer all on the same line. The shortest lets you make a bunch (good for brain). The next two give you alot of practice holing the kind of putts you need to make to keep a round going. Putt these three, get them out of the hole, repeat. If you don't make a bunch of putts at first, don't worry, you will improve. Practice some longer putts. Do a little putting around the practice green with one ball for touch. If you want to work on your stroke, do it indoors with some kind of reference tool. I learned to putt watching my stroke over a threshold.
Die putting is for longer putts. You don't have to ram the short ones, but make a nice positive stroke. If you take too high a line, you will put a little steer on it to help it break enough to go in. Practice some breaking putts at three different speeds. Big break, medium break. Minimal break. It helps with touch and seeing putts. Learn to putt with medium break.
Visualize. We have to use our talents as we find them. Some guys go to the movies. Some see a straight line. Sounds like you get a feel for the shot. That's OK.
Confidence depends on where in the round. This is a problem. If you want to putt better, you have to think better. You can control your mental process. From now on, act like you know what you are doing as you walk into the putt. Just try it for the next few rounds. Every putt. Let me know.
HB
I'm a little afraid to ask. Lets hear about your management and mental game.
We've got potential. I like the reading and routine. Esp. smooth stroke and letting the braincell do the aiming. I like letting the talent do its part rather than manual override.
HB
I'm a little afraid to ask. Lets hear about your management and mental game.
Question on the above . . . Should talent and braincell deal be throughout the game?
Management
This part of my game is a strength. I pretty much try to play shots that I can play. I pick really good targets and play the percentages well. I always have a plan . . . execution is a different story. I love the strategic part of the game. I try to pick my targets from the tee that allow the most margin for error. On my course I don't hit driver on but 5 holes or so depending on conditions. You just don't get much juice for the amount of squeeze you gotta do. I play thinking pretty much "what do I have to do to make par on this hole" and let the birdies come. From 9 iron down I shoot at pins. Rest of the stuff is middle of green. I'm more like too shot at a left pin than a right pin because my natural shape wants to go left.
Some days my tee shots can be good . . . but I ALWAYS have 2 or 3 holes where hit a wildazz tee shot to somewhere you make 1,000,000 from. When I hit a bad shot I hit a BAD shot. I'm pretty good about striking it solid but it's more of a direction dealie.
MENTAL
Another stength of mine is ATTITUDE . . . I have fun on the course. I never get mad. You can't tell if I'm shootin' 100 or 75. I'm just happy to be on the golf course. I don't beat myself up after bad shots or rounds.
ROUTINE Not so good. I don't have a lot of confidence in my alignment. I have too many mechanical thoughts. I get to playing golf swing instead of playing golf. If I miss one I tend to get more mechanical. The weird thing is though . . .when I have to hit a trouble shot or work a shot I tend to hit those shots great. I have more trouble with the shots I SHOULD hit well. Maybe I get more committed. That may be something I need to explore what commitment means with regards to G.O.L.F. and golf.
OVERALL CONFIDENCE IN GAME I feel like I have enough skills that I could be a 4 to scratch but I just need to eliminate the wild shot off the tee and hit more short putts. I have the desire to get there and feel like I can . . . but I never have.
Question on the above . . . Should talent and braincell deal be throughout the game?
Management
This part of my game is a strength. I pretty much try to play shots that I can play. I pick really good targets and play the percentages well. I always have a plan . . . execution is a different story. I love the strategic part of the game. I try to pick my targets from the tee that allow the most margin for error. On my course I don't hit driver on but 5 holes or so depending on conditions. You just don't get much juice for the amount of squeeze you gotta do. I play thinking pretty much "what do I have to do to make par on this hole" and let the birdies come. From 9 iron down I shoot at pins. Rest of the stuff is middle of green. I'm more like too shot at a left pin than a right pin because my natural shape wants to go left.
Some days my tee shots can be good . . . but I ALWAYS have 2 or 3 holes where hit a wildazz tee shot to somewhere you make 1,000,000 from. When I hit a bad shot I hit a BAD shot. I'm pretty good about striking it solid but it's more of a direction dealie.
MENTAL
Another stength of mine is ATTITUDE . . . I have fun on the course. I never get mad. You can't tell if I'm shootin' 100 or 75. I'm just happy to be on the golf course. I don't beat myself up after bad shots or rounds.
ROUTINE Not so good. I don't have a lot of confidence in my alignment. I have too many mechanical thoughts. I get to playing golf swing instead of playing golf. If I miss one I tend to get more mechanical. The weird thing is though . . .when I have to hit a trouble shot or work a shot I tend to hit those shots great. I have more trouble with the shots I SHOULD hit well. Maybe I get more committed. That may be something I need to explore what commitment means with regards to G.O.L.F. and golf.
OVERALL CONFIDENCE IN GAME I feel like I have enough skills that I could be a 4 to scratch but I just need to eliminate the wild shot off the tee and hit more short putts. I have the desire to get there and feel like I can . . . but I never have.
Bucket,
Talent and braincell throughout the ball. YES. "Turn off the brain. Turn on the game."
Strategy and management sound really good. It's great that you always have fun. As you progress, we may want you to fire at reasonable flags down to a six or seven iron. One thing you mentioned from last round was 6 three putts. Maybe you should try hitting it closer to the hole.
Focus on trouble shots. You have to, the shot dictates start line, height, curvature, etc. Tour players do the same thing. They hit this miracle shot out of the trees, then the next hole they miss the green with a wedge. Focus.
So the difference between the trouble shot and the one from the middle of the fairway 150 out is the definition. You can define this shot. You can picture it hit on the green, spin left a few feet, and topple into the hole. You can picture the trajectory. If you want to hit a straight shot, you can picture a tunnel of trees defining the flight. It's all mind games. Even when you are hitting a safe shot to the middle of the green, you want to be really locked in on the target.
Routine. Practice your alignment on the range. Take it for granted on the course. Nobody plays good when they are worried about it. One of the dangers in knowing alot about the swing is being able to diagnose errors and becoming focused on them. Let those thoughts go until you have made the same physical error a number of times in a row. One bad shot should go straight out the window.
Wild shots. Is it random or do you struggle with the same tee shots? Sometimes you have to do something different on a hole that does not fit your eye.
HB
Lay out your plan for improvement, as you see it.
Last edited by Hennybogan : 07-12-2007 at 12:07 PM.
Reason: forgot question
Talent and braincell throughout the ball. YES. "Turn off the brain. Turn on the game."
Strategy and management sound really good. It's great that you always have fun. As you progress, we may want you to fire at reasonable flags down to a six or seven iron. One thing you mentioned from last round was 6 three putts. Maybe you should try hitting it closer to the hole.
Focus on trouble shots. You have to, the shot dictates start line, height, curvature, etc. Tour players do the same thing. They hit this miracle shot out of the trees, then the next hole they miss the green with a wedge. Focus.
So the difference between the trouble shot and the one from the middle of the fairway 150 out is the definition. You can define this shot. You can picture it hit on the green, spin left a few feet, and topple into the hole. You can picture the trajectory. If you want to hit a straight shot, you can picture a tunnel of trees defining the flight. It's all mind games. Even when you are hitting a safe shot to the middle of the green, you want to be really locked in on the target.
Routine. Practice your alignment on the range. Take it for granted on the course. Nobody plays good when they are worried about it. One of the dangers in knowing alot about the swing is being able to diagnose errors and becoming focused on them. Let those thoughts go until you have made the same physical error a number of times in a row. One bad shot should go straight out the window.
Wild shots. Is it random or do you struggle with the same tee shots? Sometimes you have to do something different on a hole that does not fit your eye.
HB
Lay out your plan for improvement, as you see it.
Henny/Bucket,
Great stuff! I've been experimenting some with shooting at flags only from 135/140 and closer (my 9-iron), opting for the middle of the green the rest of the time (the greens on the courses I play aren't always that big). I hadn't really considered HB's comment about really "focusing in" on that sort of shot before, but it makes a bunch of sense.
So the difference between the trouble shot and the one from the middle of the fairway 150 out is the definition. You can define this shot. You can picture it hit on the green, spin left a few feet, and topple into the hole. You can picture the trajectory. If you want to hit a straight shot, you can picture a tunnel of trees defining the flight. It's all mind games. Even when you are hitting a safe shot to the middle of the green, you want to be really locked in on the target.
Wild shots. Is it random or do you struggle with the same tee shots? Sometimes you have to do something different on a hole that does not fit your eye.
HB
Lay out your plan for improvement, as you see it.
NICE!!!! I like it . . .
Wild shots. Is it random or do you struggle with the same tee shots?
OK . . . I played 9 holes for lunch. I think I may have figured out a big portion of my wild shots. I should have started here in the first place too! I hit some hard hooks with all of my clubs. Not low snappers but more like solid bombs that just curved to hard left . . . past the old stance line. I was even hooking wedges 15 yards or so.
I have really been working on #3 accumulator roll . . . which I think was a dumb thing to do with my grip type. I have a turned left hand. So it to me on a little pitch that I didn't need all that roll and it was causing to clubface movement. So I hit this little holdy blocky feeling thing . . . one hop . . . .in the hole. Next hole I carried that same holdy deal and hit it really great from a direction standpoint. My flail has to work different who gets their hands on the club 10-2-B vertical style.
The other thing I did was the whole visualization deal. Imagined that the ball was like the size of a kickball or something. It freed everything up. I tend to hit it pretty solid anyway for the most part. But I really was able to let it rip without having to be superdooper ball bound.
I feel better about it now. If I can drive it in play I hit the irons good enough that I can do awight. Putted a lil' better too. Take away the two wild hooks O.B. and I shoot decent.
Hybrid Mode
